Lancelot Schaubert — Thanks for joining us, T.J. Glenn. When was the first time you imagined yourself in a fantasy or pretended you were someone else?

T.J. Glenn — Oh, easily when I was 8 or 9 years old, creating stories with my GI Joe action figures etc.

LS — Who was your favorite?

T.J. Glenn — You mean which fantasy world? Easily Tarzan. Then John Carter. Then Conan.

LS — In that order.

TJG — But movies made me want be Errol Flynn.

LS — What did you like about Flynn?

TJG — Once I saw the Adventures of Robin Hood I was hooked. Swords, colorful costumes, fighting for justice.

LS — When was the first time you swung something like a sword? Sword-esque. The platonic sword, nothing sharp. And what was it?

TJG — When Guy Williams Zorro was on TV, I made a sword from a dowling rod and blue bonnet margarine cup and was sword fighting in the empty lots near the house.

Then when I was 14 I saw chapter 2 of the Adventures of Captain Marvel serial and when I saw the amazing stuntwork of Dave Sharp as the Captain, I knew I had to do that stuff myself. Saw it at a comic convention. Phil Seulings comic con.

LS — Which one? Which stunt, specifically?

TJG — Oh, all the jumps and take offs and landings. I started reading everything I could on stunts and old movies.

LS — What did you learn? Like what are the secrets to a stuntman’s life that no one really thinks to ask?

TJG — I used to get anything that had interviews with old stuntmen, on the serials etc. and then got the super 8 versions of old movies and studied how the stuntmen moved on a frame by frame movieola

The one thing most people don’t realize is that stuntmen are not really ‘daredevils.’ That is they do it for the effect — not for the thill it gives them — it is the thrill it gives the audience. Not that it ain’t fun when you do a cool thing– but there is a saying :

There are old stuntmen and bold stuntmen
but not old bold stuntmen.

That is, you have to think…plan.. visualize the stunt to get the effect for camera.

And it is about training. Studying gymnastics, martial arts, and any physical skill you can study.

Many old stunt guys were cowboys (they had a lot of westerns in the old days) who then learned other skills.

Or former military with training in various things…

Or both.

I came to it from purely a desire to DO it, so I studied stage combat, dance, gymnastics and martial arts…

from Street Fighter: The Later Years

LS — Do you have any clips out there in the wild on YouTube you could point to that are like, “Here’s this technique I learned from this early study…” ?

TJG — I came to it from an art background (went to art school) so I always story boarded and planned stuff to be able to explain it to directors.

LS — Do you have pictures of any of those old story boards?

TJG — Well I have a trailer I did for The Exceptionals – a series I tried to sell- that has a lot of stuff in it.

LS — Yeah shoot that over to me, I’d love to see that

TJG — 

I wrote 3 books in this series before the pub company sold me out– ie. was sold and is now a zombie company. lol

LS — As in they sell zombies or are undead?

TJG — As in I have been fighting to get my rights back for a decade from an unresponsive company and they are still on Amazon but I get NOTHING from any sale. And not alone: other authors have issues with them.

It is bioenhanced bounty hunters in the near future.

So it goes. I have moved on…

Anyway, I went on to do 60 renaissance festivals and lots of low budget movies as well as 300 or so episodes of NY based soap operas. And shows like Spenser for Hire.

LS — You’re researching these stunt movies. I’m assuming taking some classes? This was before you did book illustration, right?

TJG — Well, how to stage the camera for best result, haw to choreograph the action for ‘maximum’ sell with minimum rehearsal time. All pre-wire work which now dominates so many films.

I made films in high school and taught myself how to do high falls, stair falls etc. from looking at the old films and reading interviews.

LS — I mean as I’m looking closer, it looks kind of like a magic trick.

Is that just ninja rolls or what’s the secret there?

TJG — After college I took my first ‘stunt class’- actually called ‘swashbuckling 101’ which was a stage combat sword class and was hooked.

Once I had that sword in my hand I knew I wanted to do it the rest of my life.

I also studied sleight of hand magic for hiding angles on the stunts, so yes, in that sense it is related that way. But so much of it is understanding what will ‘sell’ on screen — i.e. real martial arts seldom look good on screen — the internal level or complexity of real fights and the randomness of it do not look visually interesting.

Why so many martial artists who THINK they will look good on screen don’t. And why so many dancers look so much better on screen: fights, as such, are much more like choreography of a dance than any fight.

LS — Big movements?

TJG — Big movements that tell a story: the trick is to try to try to be logical in choosing moves that make the story relatable for the audience.

LS — Was pirate dress mandatory?

TJG — Not mandatory, but I have been accused of dressing like the back lot of a movie studio and it is true… lol

LS — Hahaha. I probably have now and again as well. I’m someone’s central casting on a given Wednesday. Or Saturday. Or… Well let’s say I did a Baz Luhrmann once and that’s about as fabulous as I’ve ever been.

What do you mean by relatable?

TJG — Why so many modern moves fail with their shaky camera and quick cuts– audience cannot follow the story.

LS —You think they should slow it down?

TJG — Not necessarily slow it down, but understand that the camera eye is not equal to the human eye. Bruce Lee had to slow himself down to be photographed– so did Sonny Listen and Bill wallece when they did film work.

Why were the John Wick films such hits?

LS — Teach me.

TJG — The directors were form stuntmen and understood how to ‘tell the story:

LS — Oh interesting. Do you know those guys or their school of thought?

TJG — I know some of them and some who trained with them. Sambo instructors.

Now they do what is called ‘pre visualize’ each fight- choreograph/storyboard and video it to determine the best angle to shoot it from.

LS — What are the most important martial arts for film as opposed to street fighting or MMA?

TJG — For film, form arts, things with Kata and art that teach you to fall safely — judo, aikido etc. Kickboxing and MMa are pretty much useless as they are inherently ‘sloppy’ or at least look it — they are too close to real fights.

Even real fencing matches make no sense to outsiders they are so quick and small moves…

The footwork is the same as stage fights for fencing, with the blade work is very different.

Sadly, no. Too many moves and that stuff was disposable.

LS — So basically these things that aren’t great for self defense are great for show?

Or is that an over simplification?

TJG — No that is pretty much true. You can adapt real techniques for film or stage or even for demonstrations, but many techniques that really work can’t be ‘faked’ safely — lol

Joint locks have to be ‘cut short’ you can’t really punch an actor int he throat (even if you want to sometimes), eye strikes, kicking to the knees- etc. have to be faked… even for some

And alot more ‘real’ techniques are Ki based– essentially hidden techniques even within the martial arts themselves.

LS — How much overlap is there with pro wrestling?

TJG — A lot of overlap (I did pro wrestle for a bit) and I would always tell my stage combat students to watch pro wrestling some of their shows are prefect examples of adapting REAL techniques to make them ring safe.

LS — So when did you short working on book illustration and was that before or after your first filmed video?

And which was the first film?

TJG — I was drawing even before my first amateur films in high school so hard to say which came first- chicken or the egg — lol — I had hoped to be. comic book artist and book illustrator to support my film career (ah-young and naive). My first paid stuntwork was for a tv pilot that never made it called “Alias Zachary Drake’ where i doubled the lead David Burton (married to Karan Black) and appeared opposite Katherine Helmond of whose the boss/Soap fame. I went on to work stunts on all the NY based soap opersa- Edge of Night, All My Children, One Life to Live, Another World and acting work as a regular cop on Guiding Light.

That led to work in Spense for Hire, where Avery Brooks as Hawk beat me up! And in an Equalizer episode with Adam Ant.

Of course I was also working as an actor, playing Dracula and the Frankenstein’s monster on stage and a bunch of different bad guys and serial killers in low budget films.

I would often get hired for a stunt and they would then give me lines which expand my part or, conversely, add physical stuff into my acting role. And I choreographed fights and stunts for over 200 plays including the Three Musketeers at West point and sixty renaissance fairs (including jousting).

LS — What are some of the coolest stunts you pulled off?

And what were the most risky?

TJG — I did a couple of body burns for shows- one a live segment on local channel 5 where the guy used way too much accelerant and almost cooked me –lol — I did a show in Atlantic city for Y2K where I had to jump off stage and then a big explosion was supposed to happen– and (AS I suspected he would) the pyro guy set it off too soon WHILTE I WAS IN IT.

LS — You… y’okay?

TJG — Burned off my eyebrows.

LS — But, like—

TJG — I only wrote my will twice before stunts. Once when I had to go off a cliff into water with my hands tied behind me as an execution victim. Cause you can’t control water.

LS — Fact.

TJG — And we had no diver on set so no one could be underwater as a safety. And once dong a car hit on a cobble road. I was on a bike with shorts and a t shirt -so no place for pads. Easy chance of clocking my head.

LS — Did…

TJG — All went well both times.

LS — Did you actually get burned with the whole accelerant local news bit? How did you make it out?

TJG —  More like a bad sunburn. But since it was live on tv I couldn’t curse out the pyro guy– just smile and take it..lol

The only time I was ever hurt on a stunt that required a doctor was doing a three story stairfall down one of those metal fire escape stairs from an old movie theatre. Got alittle too much velocity and whacked my right calf on the hand rail near the bottom. I choreographed the actor in to finish the fall then went back to the trailer and discovered my pads were red– with blood. went to the ER and found out I’d split my calf open to the bone. Got it sewed up and finsihed the film on canes.. that year I did the Macey’s Thanksgiving Parade (I was on the Marvel float as Dr. Strange standing on one leg to look all mystical). Fake it till ya make it!

LS — Any favorite roles or films in general? Any star pupils?

TJG — Most of the acting roles I loved were in pilots that didn’t make it to series or trailers that didn’t run- I.e. a gunman in a western, a pirate in a proposed wrap around series for old swashbucklers films, but I Loved playing a book accurate Dracula on stage on the 100th anniversary of the book and Macbeth. Most of the roles I played were goon types. Though i did a really evil part in a film called Blood Mixed, but by the time the final cut happened my 10 minutes of screen time was down to under a minute… so it goes….All my students are stars to me, but one of my biggest joys was choreographing a Romeo and Juliet with a bunch of older teens I had been training for 9 years. They could do every move I gave them and made it better!!!

LS — That’s amazing

TJG — 

TJG — This one never got funded cause we were hit with the covid lockdown and the funding went away…

LS — Are there any questions I should have asked or stories hove always wanted to tell but no one has ever asked you?

And if some young gun wanted to get into this, what would you tell them?

TJG — I could blab for hours– I loved doing it all– really every kid’s dream to play fight and then go get pizza– lol. But as to advice: study a martial art that teaches falling, take gymnastics or acrobatics for actors, study stage combat take driving classes. (I never did cause I worked out of NY so was a little limited that way) and stay in shape. And network. People in this business hire you because they trust you: it is very much like being at war. They want to know you have their back. It can be very cliquish and so who you know really matters… you have to hustle a lot. The more skills you have — skating, bike riding, horse riding, skiing, etc. you never know what skill will be needed. And you can’t be a whiner: bruises are part of the game. I was almost always hired to make some other actor look good — or tough — don’t bring your ego to it. (Another reason many martial artists have trouble: they are trained to win and mostly stunt men lose.. lol).

Plus you have to love movies and movie making….

It is hard work, but I’m blessed to have been able to do it… I still hope to be able to do more– just no more hard falls for me at my age…but I could still swing a sword as an evil Cardinal’s guard!

Here’s part of an interview i did a bit ago:

Another trailer for a film that WAS released- I’ am an evil Russian gangster…

And this is a short film I did just before lockdown = as the bad guy sheriff…

LS — What do fans freak out about the most? How do you think that all fed into your story?

TJG — I was recognized a couple of times from soap opera appearances as a cop which was nice, but also several times when I was a bad guy who ended one of the main characters storylines: carried his body into a jet out on locations long island. That was funny- people don’t know how to separate characters and actors. And I was Vega in Streetfighter the Later Years and was recognized several times for that. It was the most popular web series in the world for a couple years, 11 years ago. Once the guy driving the car who picked me up from a bus station on Cape Cod that I was gonna work on and when he realized I WAS Vega almost crashed the car— apparently his school watched the web series.

LS — Awesome

TJG — I had to grab the wheel.

LS — How did this affect your Of Gods and Globes story?

TJG — Well, I kind of consider humans as sort of absurd creatures– most of what we do if we step back and look at it logically is down right silly—so many rituals whose origins are forgotten. From little superstions like salt over the shoulder to are complex caste systems… so my chance to scure that with particularlly English Victorian society was fun.

LS — Did any of your stunt work make an appearance?

TJG — In my writing? well, didn a semi-autobiographic mystery novel “Murder Most Fair” about a friend’s death which follows a fight choreographer as a renaissance fair is created as the backdrop, and my Maxi Moxie book series is set in the movie industry of the 1930s.

LS — What about in your OGAG story?

TJG — It’s period story- and a satire as well– so only in the sense that I ‘choreograph’ the physical action in it much as I would any fight for a live show.

LS — You promised to tell me about Errol Flynn.

TJG — Flynn’s persona in The Adventures of Robinhood and the Seahawk were the ultimate hero. Robinhood was more fantasy than Star Wars and absolutely hypnotic. It came full circle: I went to a three week seminar on stage combat & swordplay in 1986. Sort of a Shaolin temple of stage combat. I was able to study with Paddy Krean who was Errol Flynn’s double in three films including his unfinished last film. It was a magical experience — he looked like Flynn might have if he had survived. He actually used to quiz me each day about Flynn facts and the films. And when I always had the answer he finally said, “How do you know all that — I was THERE and I didn’t know that….

Ask T.J. Glenn Questions in the comments, he might answer yours and be sure to get his story \/

Read the new short story by T.J. Glenn in the brand new Of Gods and Globes anthology: